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junkydawg
08-19-2008, 02:15 PM
With the Atlantic Series celebrating moving closer to the end of its fourth decade and returning to the Grand Prix de Trois-Rivieres for the first time since 2003, the iconic Quebec street race served as the perfect backdrop for the series to unveil its 35th anniversary All-Star Team.

The ten-member team was selected from a field of 25 finalists by a panel of esteemed racing journalists and photographers earlier this year, and reflects the series' long history of developing drivers from Canada and the United States. The final list, which spans all 35 years of the series, consists of six Canadians and four Americans, while a handful of 'overseas' stars populate the 'nearly' men.

“We were thrilled to be back at Trois-Rivieres for the first time in five years and this was the perfect event for us to announce our 35th anniversary Atlantic Championship All-Star Team,” series president Vicki O'Connor commented, “This team represents the very best of the Atlantic Championship over the years and every member of the team truly earned the right to be a part of it. I am grateful to our friends in the media who participated in the selection of the team and I offer my sincere congratulations to every driver who was selected.”

Plans are currently being made to honour the All-Star Team as part of the 2008 season finale on 3 October, which could see at least some of the following joining this year's crop of hopefuls at Road Atlanta:

AJ Allmendinger
Only raced in Atlantic for one season (2003), but won the series championship with seven victories, including the race at Trois-Rivieres, and his nine pole positions tied Gilles Villeneuve for the record for most poles in a single season. Allmendinger went on to win races in the Champ Car World Series and now competes in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series in the #84 Red Bull Racing Toyota.

Claude Bourbonnais
In an Atlantic career that spanned 1989-93, the Canadian claimed 13 career victories, tying him for second place on the all-time win list with Gilles Villeneuve. Bourbonnais also earned eleven pole positions during his Atlantic career, tying him for fourth on the all-time list with Gilles' brother Jacques and Patrick Carpentier. He finished inside the top three in the championship three times, including runner-up performances to David Empringham in 1993 and Brian Till in the Atlantic Division of the 1990 season. He went on to compete in the 1997 Indianapolis 500, Champ Cars and other forms of road racing and is now coaching young drivers.

Bill Brack
The Canadian competed in Atlantic from its inception in 1974 through 1979 and won the first two series championships in 1974 and 1975. He owns a total of eight career Atlantic victories, including one Trois-Rivieres triumph, and eight pole positions. He now owns a Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Kia dealership in Toronto and the Bill Brack Driving Academy.

Patrick Carpentier
Another popular Canadian racer, Carpentier competed in Atlantic from 1992 through 1996, and his nine victories in his 1996 championship-winning season tie him with Gilles Villeneuve for the most Atlantic victories in a single season. Carpentier owns a total of twelve career Atlantic victories - including two at Trois-Rivieres - placing him fourth all-time, and he is tied for fourth with Gilles' brother Jacques and Claude Bourbonnais on the all-time pole-winners list with eleven. He went on to a successful Champ Car career that yielded five career victories before moving into the Indy Racing League. This year, he competes full-time in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series in the #10 Gillett Evernham Motorsports Dodge.

Mark Dismore
The Indiana native owns the Atlantic record for most career victories with 15, spread over a career that had two stints, the first from 1989-90 and the second from 1992-94. Dismore's most successful Atlantic season came in 1990, when he won eight races and four pole positions en route to the SCCA/Toyota Atlantic Championship Pacific Division title. He won at least one race in all but one of his five years in the series and also owns nine career pole positions. He went on to compete in sportscars, winning the 1993 24 Hours of Daytona. He was also an IndyCar competitor, and won the 1999 season finale at Texas Motor Speedway. He now owns and operates a karting facility and sales outlet in Indiana.

David Empringham
In an Atlantic career that stretched from 1992 to 1995, Empringham was one of the most successful drivers in series history, taking eleven victories and five pole positions, as well as back-to-back series championships in 1993 and 1994. His three Atlantic wins at Trois-Rivieres tie him with Jacques Villeneuve Sr for the most all-time at the historic event. The Canadian bested drivers such as 1997 F1 world champion and 1995 CART champion and Indianapolis 500 winner Jacques Villeneuve, as well as Atlantic great Claude Bourbonnais, eventual Champ Car and IndyCar racers Richie Hearn and Patrick Carpentier, and 1999 IndyCar Series champion Greg Ray and went on to win the 1996 Indy Lights championship and also won the 2006 Grand-Am Cup Series Grand Sport championship. He is a respected driver coach currently working with Mathiasen Motorsports and driver Jonathan Bomarito in the Atlantic Championship.

Jon Fogarty
One of only five drivers in the history of Atlantic to win multiple series championships, Fogarty is the only American driver to win the championship more than once, taking titles in 2002 and 2004. Fogarty owns eight career Atlantic victories and ten pole positions while racing against drivers such as Michael Valiante, Alex Gurney, Ryan Hunter-Reay, Luis Diaz, Ryan Dalziel and Danica Patrick. Fogarty has sinc become a star in sportscar racing, co-driving to the 2007 Grand-Am Rolex Sports Car Series Daytona Prototype title with Gurney.

Jimmy Vasser
The American driver's Atlantic career began in 1987, but his career as a full-time driver in the series spanned 1990 and 1991. He earned a total of eight victories and twelve pole positions, placing him third on the all-time pole-winners list behind Gilles Villeneuve and Steve Shelton. His best result in the championship was second in 1991, behind the late Jovy Marcelo, but Vasser went on to compete in Champ Car, taking the series title in 1996 and a total of ten victories and nine pole positions. He continues to compete in selected sportscar events and is co-owner of KV Racing Technology, which competes in the IndyCar Series.

Gilles Villeneuve
Arguably the most celebrated Canadian racer in history, Villeneuve competed in Atlantic from 1974 through 1977. He owns a total of three Atlantic titles, taking both the IMSA-sanctioned series and the CASC-sanctioned series in 1976, as well as the 1977 crown. He ranks second on the all-time Atlantic race winners list with 13 victories, including an extremely popular win at Trois-Rivieres in 1976, and he still holds the Atlantic record for most pole positions with 14. He went on to drive for McLaren and Ferrari in F1, taking six grand prix victories and two pole positions from 67 starts before his death in a crash during practice for the 1982 Belgian Grand Prix.

Jacques Villeneuve
The brother of Gilles Villeneuve, Jacques had several stints in the Atlantic Championship. His first, from 1979 through 1981, yielded titles in 1980 and '81, ahead of drivers such as Tom Gloy, Steve Saleen, Price Cobb and Geoff Brabham. After his second Atlantic title, 'Uncle Jacques' went on to win the 1983 Can-Am title, as well as competing in F1 and Champ Car events. He picked up his lone Champ Car race victory in 1985 at Road America, but returned to race in Atlantic events from 1989 through 1998 and owns a total of ten Atlantic victories and eleven pole positions. He is tied with David Empringham for the most Atlantic victories at Trois-Rivieres with three, and is the only driver to qualify on the Trois-Rivieres pole position three times. He remains an active powerboat and snowmobile racer, and was the first three-time winner of the World Championship Snowmobile Derby at Eagle River, Wisconsin.

For the record, the remaining 15 finalists were Michael Andretti, Alex Barron, Price Cobb, Scott Goodyear, Tom Gloy, Richie Hearn, Howdy Holmes, Anthony Lazzaro, Dan Marvin, Roberto Moreno, Hoover Orsi, Bobby Rahal, Buddy Rice, Keke Rosberg and Jacques Villeneuve Jr.

Weren't Paul Tracy and Greg Moore in Atlantics?

mwrmt
08-19-2008, 03:03 PM
Weren't Paul Tracy and Greg Moore in Atlantics?


Indy Lights.

race1010
08-19-2008, 11:35 PM
:) Some pretty impressive drivers on the list! Sadly, not enough of them made the jump to the bigs to run in the CART series...it might have been a boost years ago to help keep real open-wheel racing alive!

Watson Roadster
08-20-2008, 01:54 AM
I don't think so 1010...While they are all fairly accomplished drivers,they are formula car drivers.That means they and their chosen form of racing are at an inherent disadvantage in North America.
By the way...They are NOT open wheel drivers.Open wheel racing is done in a midget,sprint car,Silver Crown,or,a SuperModifed.Formula car racing is done in...well...those other things with wings and the engine in the wrong place...;)

vvvracer
08-20-2008, 02:56 AM
I don't think so 1010...While they are all fairly accomplished drivers,they are formula car drivers.That means they and their chosen form of racing are at an inherent disadvantage in North America.
By the way...They are NOT open wheel drivers.Open wheel racing is done in a midget,sprint car,Silver Crown,or,a SuperModifed.Formula car racing is done in...well...those other things with wings and the engine in the wrong place...;)

Blah, Blah, Blah!!! Geez! who died and made you the open wheel Czar!?

Dude, we get it! You worship midgets & sprites. :rolleyes:

Note to moderators... Give this guy his midget & sprites forum already!!! :D

vvvracer
08-20-2008, 02:58 AM
Indy Lights.

The Indy Lights were actually a good series until it was converted to the Dark Side!

vvvracer
08-20-2008, 03:02 AM
:) Some pretty impressive drivers on the list! Sadly, not enough of them made the jump to the bigs to run in the CART series...it might have been a boost years ago to help keep real open-wheel racing alive!Even if they had, the mess TG created was bigger than any amount of good drivers could do to control the damage.

icecop22
08-20-2008, 10:20 AM
Blah, Blah, Blah!!! Geez! who died and made you the open wheel Czar!?

Dude, we get it! You worship midgets & sprites. :rolleyes:

Note to moderators... Give this guy his midget & sprites forum already!!! :D

AGREED, enough about series that REALLY dont matter to anyone, no one sits down and says i have to watch silver crown, modified, or any of those series.

Offenhauser
08-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Even if they had, the mess TG created was bigger than any amount of good drivers could do to control the damage.

Well the big issue with the IRL is it failed to do what it was designed to do. It got Tony Stewart and Sam Hornish (with they both lost) and failed to attract people that had followings before they got to nascar like Kasey Kahne and Ryan Newman. Instead we get stuck with Eliseo Salazar and Danica Patrick *yawn* If the IRL served it's purpose we would probably be looking at a different ball game for Open Wheel racing. (Watson I can't pass up a chance to get under your skin :D) but instead it was nothing short of a flop and it's now way behind it's former self.

Watson Roadster
08-20-2008, 01:19 PM
Well the big issue with the IRL is it failed to do what it was designed to do. It got Tony Stewart and Sam Hornish (with they both lost) and failed to attract people that had followings before they got to nascar like Kasey Kahne and Ryan Newman. Instead we get stuck with Eliseo Salazar and Danica Patrick *yawn* If the IRL served it's purpose we would probably be looking at a different ball game for Open Wheel racing. (Watson I can't pass up a chance to get under your skin :D) but instead it was nothing short of a flop and it's now way behind it's former self.
You are correct,sir...Too bad Vicky Victoria does'nt get it.His kind never does however,which is why formula car racing is headed for street parade nirvana and the history books in North America...again...thankfully...

Offy,you're not getting under my skin at all,because I agree with you.The original IRL flopped not because of the original plan,the plan is the correct one for North America,but because the plan was never fully implemented.Mr.George only made a cursory effort and then showed his true colours by revealing his true intentions.He wanted to run CART from The Speedway,and now he's got all the garbage that comes with 2nd rate formula car racing.It's called an unmarketable,unsellable version of the sport in North America.If not,why did ABC/ESPN pay Mr.George to essentially go away with a year remaining on the IRL's tv deal?Why are they now on Versus?Let's give it 3 years and then let's see where the "upper echelon" of formula car racing is.
My guess?

A schedule full of street parades

Microscopic TV ratings

Car counts barely around 18 because of a serious lack of sponsorship

A further diminished Indianapolis 500

A no name driver line up filled with the requisite ride buying clowns

I think 2011 is a huge year.I believe Mr.George wants to get to that 100 year mark for the 500 and then all bets are off.I believe three things are probable after that date.
#1.The thing I want to see.The new USAC Gold Crown car becomes the defacto Indy car.This will effectively end formula car racing at The Speedway and probably end formula car racing,for the most part,in North America.

#2.The Indy 500 becomes a "Run what you brung" open comp,one off event.

#3.The Speedway is sold to either ISC or SMI,and if Eddie Gossage or Bruton Smith have their way,the direction of Indy car racing will change for the better...again...

Offy,is your avatar Jackie Stewart's '67 Red Ball spl. owned by John Mecom?

vvvracer
08-20-2008, 02:54 PM
Too bad Vicky Victoria does'nt get it.His kind never does however,
:rolleyes: Name calling... the refuge you embrace as you mire (pun intended) in frustration with your painstaking attempts to extol the virtues of your beloved midgets and sprites... and fail so miserably! :D

Offenhauser
08-20-2008, 05:18 PM
You are correct,sir...Too bad Vicky Victoria does'nt get it.His kind never does however,which is why formula car racing is headed for street parade nirvana and the history books in North America...again...thankfully...

Offy,you're not getting under my skin at all,because I agree with you.The original IRL flopped not because of the original plan,the plan is the correct one for North America,but because the plan was never fully implemented.Mr.George only made a cursory effort and then showed his true colours by revealing his true intentions.He wanted to run CART from The Speedway,and now he's got all the garbage that comes with 2nd rate formula car racing.It's called an unmarketable,unsellable version of the sport in North America.If not,why did ABC/ESPN pay Mr.George to essentially go away with a year remaining on the IRL's tv deal?Why are they now on Versus?Let's give it 3 years and then let's see where the "upper echelon" of formula car racing is.
My guess?

A schedule full of street parades

Microscopic TV ratings

Car counts barely around 18 because of a serious lack of sponsorship

A further diminished Indianapolis 500

A no name driver line up filled with the requisite ride buying clowns

I think 2011 is a huge year.I believe Mr.George wants to get to that 100 year mark for the 500 and then all bets are off.I believe three things are probable after that date.
#1.The thing I want to see.The new USAC Gold Crown car becomes the defacto Indy car.This will effectively end formula car racing at The Speedway and probably end formula car racing,for the most part,in North America.

#2.The Indy 500 becomes a "Run what you brung" open comp,one off event.

#3.The Speedway is sold to either ISC or SMI,and if Eddie Gossage or Bruton Smith have their way,the direction of Indy car racing will change for the better...again...

Offy,is your avatar Jackie Stewart's '67 Red Ball spl. owned by John Mecom?

I agree with you for the most part. I don't think that Sprint cars/Roadsters should ever be the formula for the 500 again or indycar racing for that matter. The 500 has always been (until recently) about showcasing automotive's technology. I think the present "indycar drivers" should be encouraged and find ways to run other events besides just the indycar schedule (i.e. Lemans, Daytona 500, sprint car racing) Guys like Foyt did it and why do you think he is so admired? The 500 does need to be "Run what you brung" again. The days of Penske's, March's, Wildcats, and Coyote's needs to return. My biggest concerned beyond the split and all the bs politics behind it is the greatest race in the world has lost it's shine to a lot of the public and they need to get thier butts in gear and revive that. My avatar is actually Graham Hill's 1966 Indianapolis 500 winner. If my memory serves me right Stewart was car 43 in 1966 and 24 and 1967 and both cars were sponsored by Bowe's seal fast.

Watson Roadster
08-22-2008, 03:02 AM
I agree with you for the most part. I don't think that Sprint cars/Roadsters should ever be the formula for the 500 again or indycar racing for that matter. The 500 has always been (until recently) about showcasing automotive's technology. I think the present "indycar drivers" should be encouraged and find ways to run other events besides just the indycar schedule (i.e. Lemans, Daytona 500, sprint car racing) Guys like Foyt did it and why do you think he is so admired? The 500 does need to be "Run what you brung" again. The days of Penske's, March's, Wildcats, and Coyote's needs to return. My biggest concerned beyond the split and all the bs politics behind it is the greatest race in the world has lost it's shine to a lot of the public and they need to get thier butts in gear and revive that. My avatar is actually Graham Hill's 1966 Indianapolis 500 winner. If my memory serves me right Stewart was car 43 in 1966 and 24 and 1967 and both cars were sponsored by Bowe's seal fast.
Those three option for The Speedway are ones I've thought of for a while.I think people have to face the facts,the era of rear engine formula cars at Indy are coming to a close.The evidence of that is staring folks right in the face.The first of that is the new and wonderful TV contract.There is absolutely no way the Speedway cheerleaders can spin it any other way than negative.And it's a scathing indictment on Mr.George and his wayward direction of the series.Now I hear that standing starts for road courses,push to pass,and,optional tires are in the offing.Does this guy pay attention?We had a series like that and it's dead.It's dead because,while the fans of it were very passionate,there simply were'nt enough of them to cover the costs.Guess what?There still is'nt enough of them...
Give it 3 years and then things are going to have to change.As I said,2011 is the big date for The Speedway.Once that date is passed I believe big changes are going to have to take place.I figure by that time people may have tired of beating their heads against the formula car brick wall of apathy,and realize drastic change is in order.I mean someone or something is going to have to pick up the pieces once this thing totally collapses.That's the reason I put out the Gold Crown idea.That car is supposed to come on line in 2010,so by that time it would have almost 2 years under its belt.That car would certainly bring back the open wheel fan to Indy car racing once the formula car house of cards crumbles.
As far as the innovation thing goes,that's why it is possible the race simply becomes a once a year event independant from any sanctioning body.And open comp. means as long as the car is this wide and this long and weighs this much...It's legal!Now that's going to be a hard thing to get past Big Insurance,but it's a possibility.
The other possibility is that The Speedway is actually put up for sale.This might be the most likely scenario because the formula car scourge will probably suck Mr.George's trust fund completely dry after 3 years of the Versus deal.I can't see alot of sponsorship dollars flowing Indy cars way with 25 million less viewers.I can see alot of empty side pods,more street parades,fewer cars,and,a general downward spiral.Once that happens and the money is all gone,I think the Hulman George family will be in a selling mood.I'm pretty sure neither SMI or ISC want anything to do with a dead end formula car series that was being propped up by The Speedway's previous owner....Bye bye formula car racing.

Interesting you brought up Foyt because I always hear from the formula car crowd that,"They've been racing rear engine cars for over 4 decades in Indy car racing so your claims about a small fanbase are cr@p!".
Oh really?
Foyt,Andretti,Rutherford,the Unser bros.,Lloyd Ruby,Roger McClusky,Gordon Johncokc,Tom Sneva et al did drive rear engine formula cars in Indy car racing...That's correct...But where did those drivers start?

Foyt came up through USAC and IMCA sprints and midgets
Andretti came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Rutherford came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Both Unser bros. came up through IMCA and USAC sprints and midgets
Lloyd Ruby came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Roger McClusky came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Johncokc came up through USAC sprints and midgets and SuperModifieds
Sneva came up through CRA sprints and West coast SuperModifeds

I don't see any rear engine formula car racing in any of those backgrounds.I wonder where the fanbase for Indy car racing through the '70's and early '80's came from?It certainly was'nt the numerous street parades USAC was running.
As far as your comment about present day Indy car drivers getting in other form of racing,I agree.It would help getting out in front of other types of motorsports and possibly bringing fans back to Indy car.Here's where these current drivers have totally dropped the ball just this year.
Two examples...

The Chilli Bowl Midget Nationals this past January in Tulsa.Just about anyone who is anyone is there.Steve Kinser,Danny Lasoski,Jason Leffler,Tony Stewart,Joey Saldana,J.J.Yeley,Kasey Kahne...Even drag racers like Gary Scelzi and Ron Capps.
I watched Robin Miller on Speed channel say basically if your an open wheel driver you MUST be in Tulsa in January.I object to Robin defaming the term "open wheel" by including these drivers,but....he said,"Where's Scott Dixon,Dario Franchitti,Paul Tracey,Dan Wheldon,Danica Patrick?They were'nt here,and they should be ashamed!".I agreed with Miller,but then again,none of the Indy car drivers are real open wheelers so I was'nt as shocked as he was.
The second was The Prelude to the Dream at Eldora in June.Tony Stewart said the winner of the Indianapolis 500 has a standing offer to come and drive in that race.He openly said Scott Dixon has a car waiting for him.Dixon was in Texas that weekend and had a PR weasel come out and say he was in meetings and could'nt make it.What a crock of bull$#!+!He basically chickened out.So the guy who won the formula car road racer retread 500 mile oval race could'nt get into a dirt late model and race in an event,with a who's who list of drivers at one of the most famous race tracks on this continent...because he was in meetings?...Garbage!!!!

Another ball dropped.I just hope they keep this fumblitis up because that means they won't be here much longer and...We can get started on fixing this thing because it's broken beyond repair.

Kiwi
08-27-2008, 03:06 AM
Down in New Zealand formula Atlantic was called Formula pacific with frequent visits for North American drivers and a couple of visits by Keke Rosberg
one of the drivers from then is now over 60 but still competitive in single seaters and a few of the old cars still run at historic meetings
I dont know where things are going but there has been so many different classes over the years

go Scott

beansport
08-28-2008, 10:02 PM
Foyt came up through USAC and IMCA sprints and midgets
Andretti came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Rutherford came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Both Unser bros. came up through IMCA and USAC sprints and midgets
Lloyd Ruby came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Roger McClusky came up through USAC sprints and midgets
Johncokc came up through USAC sprints and midgets and SuperModifieds
Sneva came up through CRA sprints and West coast SuperModifeds

I don't see any rear engine formula car racing in any of those backgrounds

Other then Foyt's first two wins, I don't think anybody on your list won the 500 in a front engine car.
so a lot of good that did them!
I kind of thought we knew that the rear engine open wheel car came around the late 50's early 60's and excluding a few Auto Union drivers , who do you think would have any rear engine open wheel racing in their background

Watson Roadster
09-01-2008, 02:27 PM
Other then Foyt's first two wins, I don't think anybody on your list won the 500 in a front engine car.
so a lot of good that did them!
I kind of thought we knew that the rear engine open wheel car came around the late 50's early 60's and excluding a few Auto Union drivers , who do you think would have any rear engine open wheel racing in their background

My point was'nt about engine and chassis positioning,it was about fanbase and more precisely,why that fanbase was much lasrger at on time.

As it realtes to Indy car racing.The first rear engine car showed up at the Speedway in 1961 in the hands of Jack Brabham.He finished 9th.The last roadster win was in 1964.Foyt won in the Sheraton-ThompsonITT Special Watson/Offy.
I believe the last roadster win overall was the following season at Phoenix and the winner was the late Jim McElreath.

The fanbase that followed those great drivers I mentioned,and there are more,came out of traditional open wheel oval track racing.When that generation of drivers retired,or was squeezed out,the inevitable folks that replaced them had virtually no fanbase in North America.(See CART in the mid '80's).That's where the slide into what we have now began!

Offenhauser
09-01-2008, 04:01 PM
My point was'nt about engine and chassis positioning,it was about fanbase and more precisely,why that fanbase was much lasrger at on time.

As it realtes to Indy car racing.The first rear engine car showed up at the Speedway in 1961 in the hands of Jack Brabham.He finished 9th.The last roadster win was in 1964.Foyt won in the Sheraton-ThompsonITT Special Watson/Offy.
I believe the last roadster win overall was the following season at Phoenix and the winner was the late Jim McElreath.

The fanbase that followed those great drivers I mentioned,and there are more,came out of traditional open wheel oval track racing.When that generation of drivers retired,or was squeezed out,the inevitable folks that replaced them had virtually no fanbase in North America.(See CART in the mid '80's).That's where the slide into what we have now began!

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Harry Miller had an unsuccesful rear engine car in the 1930s at Indy? Who knows. But you're exactly right about CART once Lolas and March's were mass produced the type of driver changed with it. The problem is the $$$ has lured all the people with followings to nascrap.

Watson Roadster
09-01-2008, 04:09 PM
It was'nt just the car...The entire culture that had dominated Indy car racing changed in the mid '80's.Once the followers of the Gurney White Paper doctrine started to take over,the formula car road racing culture took over.1985 is the demarkation point where more road races were on the CART sched. than ovals...That only continued to increase for the next 10 years.

The actual split was'nt in 1996,the real split in Indy car racing,and the reason it is in the shape it is in ,began to take hold in the mid '80's.It hitched it's wagon to the historically weak formula car road racing culture.When looked at that way,it's easy to see why it is in the trouble it is in now...

Offenhauser
09-01-2008, 04:28 PM
It was'nt just the car...The entire culture that had dominated Indy car racing changed in the mid '80's.Once the followers of the Gurney White Paper doctrine started to take over,the formula car road racing culture took over.1985 is the demarkation point where more road races were on the CART sched. than ovals...That only continued to increase for the next 10 years.

The actual split was'nt in 1996,the real split in Indy car racing,and the reason it is in the shape it is in ,began to take hold in the mid '80's.It hitched it's wagon to the historically weak formula car road racing culture.When looked at that way,it's easy to see why it is in the trouble it is in now...


It's funny you mention this too because I know one of the guys that help with the founding on IRL. And from what I gather too is if USAC would have been kept in place instead of thier own sanctioning body you'd probably be looking at a different picture as well. The IRL in concept was a great idea but was in the long run a flop.

Watson Roadster
09-01-2008, 05:08 PM
It's funny you mention this too because I know one of the guys that help with the founding on IRL. And from what I gather too is if USAC would have been kept in place instead of thier own sanctioning body you'd probably be looking at a different picture as well. The IRL in concept was a great idea but was in the long run a flop.

Was the guy one of the following:Jack Long,Cary Agajanian,Leo Mehl?

USAC screwed them
selves over the Texas scoring debacle in '97.If they had tried to get things right,I think you might be correct.However,I don't think Mr.George was ever really commited to really fixing the problem.He was committed to running CART from The Speedway.He basically has done what he set out to do.He also deserves everything comes/will come with it.

The IRL plan IS the correct plan for Indy car racing in North America.It flopped,not because it's wrong,but because it was never properly committed to.

Offenhauser
09-03-2008, 11:05 AM
Was the guy one of the following:Jack Long,Cary Agajanian,Leo Mehl?

USAC screwed them
selves over the Texas scoring debacle in '97.If they had tried to get things right,I think you might be correct.However,I don't think Mr.George was ever really commited to really fixing the problem.He was committed to running CART from The Speedway.He basically has done what he set out to do.He also deserves everything comes/will come with it.

The IRL plan IS the correct plan for Indy car racing in North America.It flopped,not because it's wrong,but because it was never properly committed to.

Actually it was neither of them and his name is slipping my memory but he replaced Tom Binford.