All NASCAR fans should read this!!!!

[Watson Roadster]

When I read this ,I said HOLY CR@P!!!!!

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

I can also add this..I have an aquaintance who's an industry insider. I called him tonight after I read this to see if De Lorenzo was throwing $#!+ against a wall seeing if anthing would stick...He told me that,"not only was Pete accurately reporting what the Big 3 said to the France family and Helton but what they said was far more harsh than Delorenzo wrote.It was more like"You'll do what we want or we're going to shove it right up your a$$es!".I asked him if the factory talking about pulling out of the truck series was Dodge because I knew they had cut back their assistance to that series.He said it was'nt Dodge,it was Ford and they are deadly serious!

I think the debacle at Indy was the last straw.The COT is toast.I think we may be headed back to the good old days when NASCAR was about factory based stock car racing with cars that look like something we could all buy.
I'm a union guy.I'm not one for sticking up for big corporations.But what Brian France and Mike Helton have done to NASCAR...It must have Big Bill rolling over in his grave!
I hope everything they want comes to fruition!If it does,it will shake the entire sport of auto racing to its core on this continent.Things are bad for the Big 3 and they are not playing around anymore...:eek:

[Offenhauser]

I hope you're right Watson because this might gain my interest in it. Also no more green/white/checkereds no more "lucky dog" and no more stupid race for the chase or whatever they call it. The COT is a joke and and the sport has been a joke for almost a decade now. Hopefully this is the France's wake up call but like the article related it to they stick thier head in the sand about stuff so I'm a little skeptical but hopefully they do something.

[Watson Roadster]

If it is correct,and I have no reason to believe it is'nt,the France family will stick it's head in the sand at it's own peril.In other words..If NASCAR wants car counts of no more than 15 COT'S per race,sponsor money to dry up,TV ratings to plummet,and,a general fall from grace faster than dropping a hammer of the CN tower,they'll try and fight the Big 3 on this.
Basically,if this comes true,the new NASCAR's dictatorial approach will come to a screetching halt.

Frankly,all of what is proposed is infinitely better than what is happening now,and obviously better than the nuclear winter option if NASCAR decides to fight change.For exanple,changing the fuel delivery system to fuel injection would be a great idea.It's not like that is NASAlike technology because fuel injection has been around almost as long as the internal combustion motor was invented.He!!,the Offenhauser's at Indy were fuelies during The Depression,so this is'nt ground breaking.Alternative fuels?That should'nt be hard to grasp.Overhead cam engine's?Please....That stuff is almost half a century old.In terms of technology,the factories really are'nt asking that much.It may cost a bit in the beginning,but,the alternative is going to make it look like chicken feed.
I love De Lorenzo's term"yestertech" because that's exactly what it is.No one uses a Holley 750 double pumper carburetor anymore.And anyone who thinks the technological status quo is great and nothing needs to be changed because,"it allows costs to remain low",spare me...If that were the case we would not be seeing power in NASCAR coalescing in the hands of a few "have" teams.We would also not be seeing these "have" teams looking for outside financial assistance.
ie.John Henry writing cheques to Jack Roush,George Gillette writing cheques for Ray Evernham,BearSterns buying Petty Entreprises etc...

Offy,I whole heartedly agree with you that while they're at it kill the stupid lucky dog,Green/White/Checker,The Chase,and,phantom debris cautions...I'm afraid,if this comes true,NASCAR is about to get a factory lead enema!!!

[Indyfan]

With all this talk, does this mean we may be seeing Tom "I'm ******* Loonie" Cruise in a "Days of Thunder" sequel to prop up the interest? I can taste the puke in my mouth already..........:eek:

[Minardi]

The "big 3" should just pull out, start teams in the ALMS save a crap load of money 'cause it's a 12 race season. Get some product recognition by running a car that looks the way it should. Be nice to see a Charger or Challenger going head to head with the 'Vettes. Throw in the new Camero and you would have a nice GT1 class.

[Cosworth]

While I think it's about time someone stand up to the France-Helton cartel and their stupid decisions, I think some of the big-three's demands are a little out of line- like telling them to add more road courses and trying to dictate the car specs.

I totally understand where the manufacturers are coming from- they are bleeding cash, the schedule is about 4-5 races too long, the new car is a piece, the races suck, and to go along with it the value of their involvement is isn't much anymore.

That being said NASCAR should be careful to not let manufacturers run too much of the show (e.g CART and IndyCar). Part of what has made NASCAR so successful (and F1 to an extent) is in how they can deal with an iron fist to control such problems. Only now NASCAR needs to know that, like any good dictator, you can't always use the iron fist, sometimes you need to give a little to keep things good on both ends, otherwise you just may have nothing left to rule over.

NASCAR needs to walk a very fine line here- be flexible on some of these issues for the good of the sport, but keep that image of strength as to not let Detroit get more than their share of power. I don't like the Frances and Helton, but I'm not sure having the big three call the shots would be any better.

RJ

[MustangSVT]

The "big 3" should just pull out, start teams in the ALMS save a crap load of money 'cause it's a 12 race season. Get some product recognition by running a car that looks the way it should. Be nice to see a Charger or Challenger going head to head with the 'Vettes. Throw in the new Camero and you would have a nice GT1 class.

I agree with this because I don't really follow NASCAR and not a fan of oval racing (althoug a lot of oval fans would get mad).

ALMS would really solve all their problems. If only ALMS was more popular in america. :o

[Minardi]

I agree with this because I don't really follow NASCAR and not a fan of oval racing (althoug a lot of oval fans would get mad).

ALMS would really solve all their problems. If only ALMS was more popular in america. :o

If the "Big 3" jumped on board, I'm sure that the popularity would increase substantially. And get a better return on their investment.

[Vandretti]

This shouldn't come as a big surprise to anybody. Rising fuel prices and plunging stock prices are alarming trends for a sport whose very existence depends on cars, the willingness of Fortune 500 companies to spend millions to make those cars go fast, and the ability of fans to travel long distances to see those cars driven around a racetrack.

A week or so ago, General Motors, which has contracts with 12 of the 22 tracks on the Sprint Cup schedule and markets its Impala brand as one of four manufacturers in the series, announced a $10 billion cost-cutting program that company officials confirmed will have an impact on GM's commitment to racing.

Just how great that impact will be remains to be seen, but with Ford and Chrysler in similar dire straits, the estimated $500 million the Detroit automakers spend annually on NASCAR is bound to shrink and conceivably could go away entirely if their bottom lines don't improve.

With the price tag on team sponsorships at $20 million or more to fully fund one car for one season, owners are scrambling to make ends meet. And promoters, whose customers are faced with paying $4 a gallon for gasoline and equally exorbitant rates for food and lodging, are finding an increasing number of empty seats at their racetracks.

I am led to believe that General Motors has notified two racetracks that run NASCAR events that their current contracts will not be renewed as part of an overall $10 billion cost-cutting program. Speedway Motorsports Inc., which owns eight tracks that hold NASCAR events, already has been told GM will not renew contracts at two tracks—New Hampshire Motor Speedway and Bristol Motor Speedway. GM has contracts with 12 of the 22 tracks where NASCAR’s top Sprint Cup series races and is the title sponsor for the fall race at Richmond International Raceway.

On top of this, NASCAR is starting to piss Toyota off........ NASCAR's new Nationwide Series rule change is as follows: "At all Events, unless otherwise specified, all engines with a cylinder bore spacing less than 4.470 inches must compete using a tapered spacer with four (4) 1.125-inch diameter holes. At all Events, unless otherwise specified, all engines with a cylinder bore spacing of 4.470 inches or more must compete using a tapered spacer with four (4) 1.100-inch diameter holes. Unless otherwise authorized, the carburetor restrictor will be issued by NASCAR."

Basically, a "tapered spacer" is a different word for "restrictor plate." These "tapered spacers" were I believe installed to slow down the Nationwide cars so they wouldn't be faster than NASCAR's premier series, the Sprint Cup. Therefore engines with a cylinder bore spacing of more than 4.470" competes with a restrictor plate with holes smaller than the rest of the engines by 0.025", which restricts airflow into the engines.

What does cylinder bore spacing have to do with horsepower (such that a smaller bore spacing would require a more restrictive plate to equalize any advantage gained)? Well, almost nothing. So why regulate it? Because NASCAR needed a way to single out Toyota for more restrictive restrictor plates to bring their horsepower down to where the other manufacturers are, without saying the word, "Toyota" in their rule.

What this means is, Toyota made a better engine and did it within the rules. Finding no fault with Toyota's engine, NASCAR just made up new rules to placate the complainers.

You have to know that this sort of prejudice against its company does not sit well with the top brass of Toyota in Japan. Don't think they would just get up and leave NASCAR? Think again. They did just that in CART over the engine plenum controversy.

[Watson Roadster]

This shouldn't come as a big surprise to anybody. Rising fuel prices and plunging stock prices are alarming trends for a sport whose very existence depends on cars, the willingness of Fortune 500 companies to spend millions to make those cars go fast, and the ability of fans to travel long distances to see those cars driven around a racetrack.

A week or so ago, General Motors, which has contracts with 12 of the 22 tracks on the Sprint Cup schedule and markets its Impala brand as one of four manufacturers in the series, announced a $10 billion cost-cutting program that company officials confirmed will have an impact on GM's commitment to racing.

Just how great that impact will be remains to be seen, but with Ford and Chrysler in similar dire straits, the estimated $500 million the Detroit automakers spend annually on NASCAR is bound to shrink and conceivably could go away entirely if their bottom lines don't improve.

With the price tag on team sponsorships at $20 million or more to fully fund one car for one season, owners are scrambling to make ends meet. And promoters, whose customers are faced with paying $4 a gallon for gasoline and equally exorbitant rates for food and lodging, are finding an increasing number of empty seats at their racetracks.

I am led to believe that General Motors has notified two racetracks that run NASCAR events that their current contracts will not be renewed as part of an overall $10 billion cost-cutting program. Speedway Motorsports Inc., which owns eight tracks that hold NASCAR events, already has been told GM will not renew contracts at two tracks—New Hampshire Motor Speedway and Bristol Motor Speedway. GM has contracts with 12 of the 22 tracks where NASCAR’s top Sprint Cup series races and is the title sponsor for the fall race at Richmond International Raceway.

On top of this, NASCAR is starting to piss Toyota off........ NASCAR's new Nationwide Series rule change is as follows: "At all Events, unless otherwise specified, all engines with a cylinder bore spacing less than 4.470 inches must compete using a tapered spacer with four (4) 1.125-inch diameter holes. At all Events, unless otherwise specified, all engines with a cylinder bore spacing of 4.470 inches or more must compete using a tapered spacer with four (4) 1.100-inch diameter holes. Unless otherwise authorized, the carburetor restrictor will be issued by NASCAR."

Basically, a "tapered spacer" is a different word for "restrictor plate." These "tapered spacers" were I believe installed to slow down the Nationwide cars so they wouldn't be faster than NASCAR's premier series, the Sprint Cup. Therefore engines with a cylinder bore spacing of more than 4.470" competes with a restrictor plate with holes smaller than the rest of the engines by 0.025", which restricts airflow into the engines.

What does cylinder bore spacing have to do with horsepower (such that a smaller bore spacing would require a more restrictive plate to equalize any advantage gained)? Well, almost nothing. So why regulate it? Because NASCAR needed a way to single out Toyota for more restrictive restrictor plates to bring their horsepower down to where the other manufacturers are, without saying the word, "Toyota" in their rule.

What this means is, Toyota made a better engine and did it within the rules. Finding no fault with Toyota's engine, NASCAR just made up new rules to placate the complainers.

You have to know that this sort of prejudice against its company does not sit well with the top brass of Toyota in Japan. Don't think they would just get up and leave NASCAR? Think again. They did just that in CART over the engine plenum controversy.

I agree Vandretti...A couple of things,though...
I think people underestimate the promotional support angle of the Big 3 as it relates to NASCAR.I would estimate almost 2/3 of all the Sprint Cup races are wholly or partially subsidized by one of the Big 3 factories.With those fortune 500 companies not doing well,and factory promotional support going away in some fashion,where is NASCAR going to come up with the bread to make up for that type of shortfall?Factor in the falling race weekend attendance numbers,which affects all things purchaseable at the track and surrounding businesses,and the picture gets much worse.

Personally,I don't want to see a 100% factory funded NASCAR again.There are some obvious problems with that.

1.The factory teams always have an advantage.Think back...Petty Entreprises,Holman and Moody,Ray Fox,the Wood Bros.If you look back to that era only a few teams really succeeded.Those that are on the outside are really on the outside and end up in an almost hopeless situation.

2.If and when the factories up and leave,they usually leave the teams and the series they are connected with high and dry.That's what happened in '71.That's why you saw folks like Cale Yarborough,Lee Roy Yarbrough,and,Donnie and Bobby Allison race Indy cars for a few years.You also had Richard Petty seriously contemplating running USAC stock cars.

I also don't think,under the current economic climate,that the factories want to directly fund stock car teams.I think they want NASCAR to race cars that more directly reflect what they are producing.In otherwords,get back to brand identity and the "Win on Sunday,Sell on Monday" way of thinking.I think an early to mid '80's NASCAR is what they're looking for.

The spec engine thing is huge because it goes to the upgrading technology proposal.It would seem that with what little money they have available,the Big 3 want to spend it on recognizable cars and engine development.In otherwords,I take it that they want NASCAR to loosen its engine rules to allow for individual factory innovation.That's an expensive proposition,but it's a good thing...Which leads into your Toyota comments,because getting rid of spec engines would be something they would be in favour of.

You're absolutely right with what NASCAR did with Toyota in the Nationwide series and it stinks...Not because I'm a Japster as the self appointed other moderator has labelled me,but because NASCAR penalized someone for building something better using their rules.There was nothing illegal about Toyota's Nationwide engine,but they are the only ones who get what amounts to a restrictor plate.Now,The Toyota NASCAR program is solely in TRDUSA's realm although I have no doubt the boys in Japan know what is going on.Considering what Toyota is spending to get next to nothing out of their F1 deal,the NASCAR stuff must be a drop in the bucket.Beyond that,I'm certain Lee White et al did some serious due diligence on NASCAR and probably realized that they have had a moving rulebook since 1948.They had to know something would happen,and because of that,I'll bet they had some other plan.I watched Wind Tunnel a few weeks back and they had one of the Braun's on from Braun Racing who has Jason Leffler driving their Toyota's in the Nationwide series.Although he was'nt happy that NASCAR singled out Toyota the way they did,he did'nt seem too concerned and said he felt TRD would get that horsepower back in a few weeks.
Would Toyota leave?It's possible,but Toyota USA has too much invested right now.And if the Big 3 get what they want,they may just play themselves right into Toyota's hands...Toyota left CART and the IRL because there was no return on their investment....Formula car racing is dead in North America.

Finally,about the road racing... 2 more road courses would'nt bother me.And if the chassis are changed to be like actual Pony cars,they should add a few road courses.Remember,pony cars were the backbone of the old Trans-Am series when it was in its heyday.You bet the Big 3 want those cars on road courses.Also,with respect to NASCAR,there is precedent for a pony car series..In the late '60's and early '70's there was the NASCAR Grand American division that raced pony cars on big tracks.Keep in mind,several NASCAR car owners had cars in Trans-Am,as well....Bud Moore and Smokey Yunick come to mind...As a matter of fact,Tiny Lund won the 2nd to last race of the 1971 season on a Grand American Camaro at North Wilkesboro.So there is precedent for that type of chassis and body style in NASCAR.

[race1010]

The article is bang on - sadly, very few learned or care to remember enough of what transpired in the mid-1970's....the Big 3 went through very serious issues regarding stability, profitability, and building the products that consumers wanted. It's now 30 years later and nothing has changed.

Complacency is no excuse for failing to responsibly shape one's future. It was only few years othere was a first-class racing organization supported by Mercedes, GM, Ford, Toyota and Honda....it died a painful death becuase no one listened to the people spending the money - the manufacturers.

It will not take a great deal of bickering this time around for the same thing to happen again, this time to Nascar - racing is a by-product of what the Big 3 and Toyota do - bottom line boys and girls - it will disappear quickly if Detroit is not making money in the showroom.:(

[Offenhauser]

I agree with this because I don't really follow NASCAR and not a fan of oval racing (althoug a lot of oval fans would get mad).

ALMS would really solve all their problems. If only ALMS was more popular in america. :o

I believe ALMS and even the Grand Am series could become big for fans and the manufacturers if they could market it right. What's not to love? Manufactuers are building prototype cars showcasing thier technology plus the GT1 and GT2 cars actually look like street models. Looking at my GT1 Corvette sitting in my office with the exception of the nose and the vents on the hood plus the rear wing there isn't a whole lot of difference appearance-wise between it and a street version.

[Watson Roadster]

I believe ALMS and even the Grand Am series could become big for fans and the manufacturers if they could market it right. What's not to love? Manufactuers are building prototype cars showcasing thier technology plus the GT1 and GT2 cars actually look like street models. Looking at my GT1 Corvette sitting in my office with the exception of the nose and the vents on the hood plus the rear wing there isn't a whole lot of difference appearance-wise between it and a street version.
I'm afraid no matter how much marketing is done to sports car racing or formula car racing the interest level outside of the core fanbases of each forms of the sport is alomst zero.You may get the odd non-auto racing fan interested,however,formula car and sports car racing in North America is really a foreign concept,outside of the clubs that are for enthusists of that sort of thing.More importantly,culturally in North America,both are on the outside looking in.
The predominant Auto racing culture in North America is oval racing.It can be divided into 2 arms...Fendered racing(stock car,for lack of a better term),and open wheel(midgets,sprints,Silver Crown,and SuperModifieds).You'll notice I left Indy car racing off that list because it belongs in the formula car column.The fanbases of both stock car racing and open wheel racing absolutely slaughter anything the sports car/formula car crowd can offer.This is why,at least in the formula car culture,they must put on street races.

Anyway,what does this have to do with possible earth shattering changes in the way NASCAR may look in the not too distant future?:confused::)

[Watson Roadster]

The France Family had better stop playing games!!!

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

If that's the best they can do there are huge problems coming for NASCAR!!!:eek: